Posted on 06/03/2005 10:14:27 AM PDT by NYer
"The WASHINGTON NATIONAL CATHEDRAL'S installed its new dean, one Samuel Lloyd, formerly of Trinity Church, Copley Square, Boston. The first reading (this was not billed as an ecumenical service) was from the Holy Koran! Lord have mercy, Christ have mercy, Lord have mercy." (The Washington National Cathedral is Episcopalian.)
"The following day, Sunday April 24, The Rev. Lloyd started his tenure as Dean of "America's Church" with a bang. At Lloyd's invitation, the homily was given by The Rev. Dr. George F. Regas, Rector Emeritus of All Saints Church in Pasadena, California. The service included readings from the Koran and Hebrew scriptures, and open communion. You can read what Regas had to say in his sermon. Hint. He says that Jesus is not the only way of salvation and he has some pluralistic ideas that will fire you up for sure. You can read his thoughts in today's digest."
"And to round things off at the Washington National Cathedral, VirtueOnline has learned that the moderator of America's official gay church - the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) will install its new moderator at the Episcopal cathedral Oct. 29-30. The announcement was made by Troy D. Perry, the present moderator of the MCC."
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2551
Episcopal Church Funding Down 12 Percent (in 2004)
2/11/2005
“A new report says giving by local dioceses to the national Episcopal Church dropped roughly $4 million last year - about a 12 percent decline in the first full year after the denomination confirmed its only openly gay bishop.
When final tallies are complete, church officials expect $27.5 million in donations from local dioceses for 2004, down from $31.2 million in 2003, according to a report given to a key church governing body Friday.
Through Nov. 30, the denomination had received $22.6 million from dioceses, the report said. Final figures were not available because December contributions have not been fully tabulated.
Denomination Treasurer Kurt Barnes told the Episcopal Executive Council, meeting at St. David’s Episcopal Church in Austin, that he does not expect a continuing decline.
Rather, he predicted a 3.7 percent increase - about $1 million - in diocese giving to the national church this year, and another 4 percent rise in 2006.
But Canon David Anderson, president of the American Anglican Council, a conservative group of Episcopalians, said he expects donations to keep going down in protest of “the liberal revisionists’ agenda, which includes a gay agenda.”
“That big of a downturn, whatever the dollar amount is, hardly argues for a church where everything is fine and wonderful,” Anderson said….”
Read it all. It is interesting to compare this news with what we were told back in February by Episcopal Church officials: “pledges to the national church are down only 7 percent” and also “The impact is what I would describe as insignificant.” It was not insignificant then, and it is still significant, in that it indicates the strong degree of distance, which in a number of cases represent profound alienation, between the grassroots people and the national leadership.
The other central point to make is that the key number to watch is NOT diocesan giving to the national church, which is what this report is discussing. Dioceses have all sorts of ways to make up parish giving shortfalls, drawing on other sources of funds, tapping reserves, etc. The key number to watch is parish giving to the diocese and the national church year over year. That is even more significant, and the national leadership is not only not taking it seriously, they are not so far as one can currently tell acting to do something substantial about it.
Thanks...you're obsessed..(LOL)I'd suspect it's far worse this year..
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - A new report says giving by local dioceses to the national Episcopal Church dropped roughly $4 million last year - about a 12 percent decline in the first full year after the denomination confirmed its only openly gay bishop.
When final tallies are complete, church officials expect $27.5 million in donations from local dioceses for 2004, down from $31.2 million in 2003, according to a report given to a key church governing body Friday.
Through Nov. 30, the denomination had received $22.6 million from dioceses, the report said. Final figures were not available because December contributions have not been fully tabulated.
Denomination Treasurer Kurt Barnes told the Episcopal Executive Council, meeting at St. David's Episcopal Church in Austin, that he does not expect a continuing decline.
Rather, he predicted a 3.7 percent increase - about $1 million - in diocese giving to the national church this year, and another 4 percent rise in 2006.
But Canon David Anderson, president of the American Anglican Council, a conservative group of Episcopalians, said he expects donations to keep going down in protest of "the liberal revisionists' agenda, which includes a gay agenda."
"That big of a downturn, whatever the dollar amount is, hardly argues for a church where everything is fine and wonderful," Anderson said.
In an interview after his presentation, Barnes said the August 2003 confirmation of New Hampshire Bishop V. Gene Robinson - who has lived with his male partner for years - was not the only factor in falling donations.
"There's a decline ... but what I'd emphasize is that some of that may be an economic reaction or reality," Barnes said. "People's incomes in 2003 and 2004 were recovering or were hurt by the market decline of 2001 and 2002."
Anderson responded that "the economy is not down, it's up. ... Maybe he could have argued that two years ago."
Since Robinson was first confirmed by the Episcopal General Convention in August 2003, parishioners and their local leaders upset over the denomination's direction have moved to withhold or limit contributions to the national church in protest.
Some dioceses, including Pittsburgh and Dallas, have refused to send any money to the national church. However, some individuals and parishes from those dioceses have continued to give. Parishioners from Pittsburgh, for example, gave $60,000 directly in 2004 after the diocese dropped its $129,000 contribution from 2003.
The more than 7,000 congregations of the Episcopal Church receive more than $2 billion in offerings a year from parishioners, and forward a portion to the national church. Donations from dioceses make up about 60 percent of the national denomination's total operating budget.
Church officials have dealt with the dip in donations by keeping some vacant jobs open and trimming other expenses. Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold has said the denomination's religious and charity missions would not be affected, while church operations would be "slightly curtailed."
The Rev. Jan Nunley, a denominational spokeswoman, said support for the church from local dioceses remains high.
"The numbers back up that the vast middle is willing to remain faithful to the Episcopal Church," Nunley said Friday.
Not really. Just took a break from work and thought I'd try a different tack that happened to succeed quite quickly. (But it is going into the site in my tagline so I don't lose it again.)
I suspect you're right.
Are there any ideas as to what is behind the ECUSA's deliberate self-immolation?
oh good grief!
It certainly looks that way; however, regardless of all their attempts to thward the One Holy Catholic Church, it hasn't and won't happen.
"Jesus said his Church would be "the light of the world." He then noted that "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.
Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)"
Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth
"Are there any ideas as to what is behind the ECUSA's deliberate self-immolation?"
Drive out the members. Sell the property. Use proceeds to further left-wing causes. Repeat process in next denomination. Eventually have real Christianity declared illegal.
"Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054."
Now, now, NYer!
Pretty much in line with Prophecy, I guess.
How in Hades could someone born and raised in Canton, Miss. and raised in the conservative Episcopal Church of the South (In that time) sink so low spiritually? I guess its the Seminaries.
Looks like the EPUSA is trying to keep up with the PCUSA. (They recently had a Presbytery meeting in California where they had readings from the Koran.
Looking at your paramenters, I was going to suggest that some churches in the PCA might be a good fit, but there don't appear to be any in your neighborhood. The closest I could come up was Bay Area PC near NASA. I think you would like Christ the King PC, but it is all the way on the west loop - way too far for you to commute to church.
I have heard only good things about the Reformed Episcopalians. Since you are low church, you might also try to find some reformed Baptists. There are some in the Southern Baptist Convention, but I would have no idea how you would locate them.
Thanks for the info. The PCA would be a good choice. Some friends of mine have joined them and are happy with their decision.
REC and AMiA would be good choices for you. Check the site in my tagline; you might find a parish near you.
BTW, the REC is, I believe, the largest non-ECUSA Anglican church in North America.
1 John 4;1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.
And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of anti-christ, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Too bad Jesus never mentioned the Catholic Church nor Paul or Peter or John or anyone else for that matter. The distinguished characteristics will be the members will be doing the works of God, just as Jesus did ie: cast out devils, heal the sick, raise the dead. The verse referring to the gates of hell is referring to a church on the attack breaking the "gates of hell" why would hell use gates to attack Christians. Jesus said that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities, powers and rulers of the darkness of this world in heavenly places. Our battle is in the Spirit. The Father told Peter out of Jesus's mouth " your a stone and upon this Rock (Jesus) I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it." He then went on to tell them if they bound things on earth or heaven it would be done and loosed things on earth and heaven it would be done. None of this has anything to do with the Catholic Church>
Why not lose your religion and be a Christian and seek for God to lead you as he lead the Apostles and Jesus himself. No denomination is of God including the Catholic Church. That doesn't mean God's people do not go to these places, it just means they are in bondage to them and need to be brought out by the power of God, like the Israelites were brought out of Egypt.
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